Comments on: Lots of group sex means you're a people-person

Lots of group sex means you're a people-person

not_the_water — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 08:41:59 -0800

What are Porn Stars' Personalities Like? (SFW)

Although self-esteem is generally consider an important marker of psychological health and well-being, the study's authors' point out that in some people self-esteem can be a marker of less desirable characteristics, such as narcissism and Machiavellianism (members of the "dark triad" mentioned earlier). Other research has found that there are different types of self-esteem. Stable self-esteem, based on liking of one's personal attributes appears to be healthier than unstable self-esteem, based on pride in one's accomplishments (Kernis, Cornell, Sun, Berry, & Harlow, 1993). The former seems to reflect a healthy self-regard that allows one to weather setbacks. The latter is easily threatened by personal failures and leads to defensiveness in response to negative feedback as well as general arrogance. Future research could help clarify if the self-esteem of porn stars tends to be mostly stable or unstable. Sort-of personality-related previouslys: A Study of 10,000 Porn Stars, He point's to his lip's, Porn and the Frontier of Female Sexuality, The Researchers Who Analyzed All the Porn on the Internet.

By: not_the_water

not_the_water — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 08:45:41 -0800

Incidentally, "Dark Triad" is a great name for a porn film.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 08:51:08 -0800

Stable self-esteem, based on liking of one's personal attributes appears to be healthier than unstable self-esteem, based on pride in one's accomplishments I'm unsure of the connotation of "healthy" in this sentence, but I'm pretty sure it is used here in the narrow sense of "robust and beneficial to the subject's continued emotional stability", as opposed to the broader sense of "conducive to growth and a positive relationship to the world". The sentence, taken in isolation, can easily be read to encompass, at one extreme, the sociopath's overweening sense of intrinsic self-worth and disregard for the worth of others.

By: DU

DU — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 08:54:24 -0800

I don't see how that sentence has anything to say about the worth of others, positive or negative, no matter how you read it.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 08:55:43 -0800

That clause can be discarded if you like. I included it in service of the notion of self-esteem as a relative measure but the sentence doesn't require it.

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 09:21:49 -0800

Interesting article. Incidentally, the "dark triad" characteristics reminded me of some of the type-A, meat-eating senior managers in government I worked with.

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 09:27:40 -0800

Ummmm, they like sex and exhibitionism?

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 09:30:45 -0800

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

By: Zed

Zed — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:04:36 -0800

Lots of group sex means you're a people-person So that's why I'm not a porn star.

By: Rustic Etruscan

Rustic Etruscan — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:35:52 -0800

I don't understand stable self-esteem. Why should I like my personal attributes if those attributes haven't allowed me to accomplish anything? On what specific personal attributes does stable self-esteem found itself?

By: DU

DU — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:40:16 -0800

Why should I like my personal attributes if those attributes haven't allowed me to accomplish anything? For the same reason you like your kids even though they didn't make you a Hollywood millionaire.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:45:22 -0800

Why should I like my personal attributes if those attributes haven't allowed me to accomplish anything? I see it as sort of whether you are the sort of person YOU like versus whether you are the sort of person that OTHERS like. The former is a more stable sort of esteem, the latter is more fleeting based on those around you and the ebb and flow of their own regard for you.

By: xarnop

xarnop — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 11:40:13 -0800

I think there should be a word for social esteem which I think is also a need. Meaning you can have all the self esteem you want but if no one else likes you, you'll still be lonely. You need some of both, value of yourself coming from you, and a sense of worth, appreciation and value among peers/social groups.

By: xarnop

xarnop — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 11:42:32 -0800

By: k8lin

k8lin — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:49:01 -0800

The "Dark Triad" has also been linked to short-term sexual success but not long-term sexual success (e.g. you are able to have more partners, but not sustained partnerships). I also found this 2010 article on the dark triad (i.e. narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism) - also called the "James Bond psychology" - to be a fascinating, and quick, read.

By: CynicalKnight

CynicalKnight — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:58:58 -0800

Has porn jumped the shark yet?

By: Rustic Etruscan

Rustic Etruscan — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 13:54:25 -0800

Also it seems like stable self esteem would be built more on valuing humanity in general (meaning since humanity is a constant your worth will be relatively unchanging). Meaning it should reflect a sense of regard for everyone's self, in a sense, and then you don't have to rate yourself or others to decide your and their worth. That's a humane model. It clarified my trouble with the model in the OP. It's circular: A person can't accomplish something without having the right inherent trait, but they can't know they have that trait unless they accomplish something with it. Either way, their self-esteem requires talent as a base. So the two categories look the same to me, unless the people who base their self-esteem on their accomplishments fall to pieces upon failure, which seems to be the OP's implication. I'm not sure where I'm getting caught here.

By: Strange Interlude

Strange Interlude — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 14:33:03 -0800

Has porn jumped the shark yet? I'll assume you haven't seen Coed Asian MILF Shark Jumpers, volumes 1-29.

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 14:47:04 -0800

"Dark Triad" also works as a gang name, an 8th-level Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric summoning spell, a band...it's really just a great pair of words.

By: Rustic Etruscan

Rustic Etruscan — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 14:58:24 -0800

It sounds like a Steven Seagal movie to my ear.

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 15:27:07 -0800

I'm not sure where I'm getting caught here. I'm caught up on the fact that it has really tenuous connections and relies on self-reported data. Setting aside the Hawthorne effect for a moment, a porn star banks on desirability; so why wouldn't anyone guess that the social desirability bias would skew their findings a bit? Give anyone a questionnaire about spirituality and self-esteem, and they can score off the charts at will.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 15:29:57 -0800

I'm pretty doubtful about almost all of the conclusions in this piece. I mean: I generally doubt the scientific validity of the "personality surveys" used as the basis of its reasoning. People have a billion reasons for rating themselves as "cold" or "emotional" or "warm" or "friendly" or whatever they choose to put themselves down as. This kind of self-reporting is notoriously unreliable. I think the author here did his best to make it clear that he wasn't drawing concrete, set-in-stone absolute conclusions, but rather just discussing some possible reasonings behind the results; however, even at that level I don't think any of these conclusions could possibly be said to be significant enough to indicate a possible trend. I mean, just focusing on what this post points out – it's actually very hard to get people to self-report accurately on self-esteem. So I don't think we can say anything yet about whether people in porn generally have more or less self-esteem than people who aren't in porn. And, on preview, P.o.B. says what I'm getting at pretty succinctly.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 16:57:06 -0800

That said, koeselitz, there's a big difference between the sentence "porn stars have warmer personalities" and "porn stars rate themselves as warmer on personality tests than a control group of non-porn stars". I think the article threaded that needle as well as could be expected.

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:21:15 -0800

Well, if lots of group sex means I am a people person, then I wish I had more of an opportunity to be a people person.

By: Sebmojo

Sebmojo — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:44:03 -0800

Tangentially, I was clicking around and stumbled on this interview with Skin Diamond (essentially SFW, though that may not be a gamble you want to take). She's hilarious. So are the deleted scenes.

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 18:11:47 -0800

I think the article threaded that needle as well as could be expected. If you mean not at all, then I agree. The first half of the article is far more interesting than the last which was basically yay self-reported high self-esteem and spirituality, but the dots it connects first are not pretty at all. The paper connects porn stars with sociosexuality, which has been linked with the "dark triad", and that "cold" traits are associated with that triad. There is no data that connected porn stars with "warm" personality traits, and I'm not sure what you hope to glean from the comparison with a control group when the test group probably wasn't reliably self-reporting in the first place.

By: hippybear

hippybear — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 19:01:08 -0800

'Most everyone I know has known for years that I'm a people person.

By: SPrintF

SPrintF — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 20:18:19 -0800

My favorite fantasy, during the Golden Age of Porn, was that I was pals with porn stars. Not for sex, mind, but for friendship, gossip and intimate breakfasts. A lot of us discovered porn, looking to satisfy a need; some of us realized the need was not for hot sex, but simple intimacy and kindness. It doesn't surprise me that personality is a big factor in the success of these actors.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Tue, 02 Apr 2013 21:03:43 -0800

dhartung: "That said, koeselitz, there's a big difference between the sentence 'porn stars have warmer personalities' and 'porn stars rate themselves as warmer on personality tests than a control group of non-porn stars'. I think the article threaded that needle as well as could be expected." Well, as far as that goes, yes. The article did as well as it could, and generally I don't have a problem with the article in an overall sense. My problem is with the notion that any real conclusions can be drawn from all this. Take the example you give: that people in porn seem to rate themselves as warmer on personality tests than a group of people who aren't in porn. Even if we assume that the methodology of the study is beyond reproach, our initial assumption - that this says something, anything, about the experience of being in porn - is still very much in doubt. Maybe this is really about people in entertainment in general, for whom it can fairly be said that its in their best interest to present themselves as warmer human beings. Maybe it's about people in Southern California, where (I believe) most people in porn are located geographically. Maybe it's about people in a particular class, or race, or social group. None of these things is being controlled for, so it's hard to say. Most of all, it's just hard to say we're getting any information at all about the people themselves. To know that, it would be better to have the word of a disinterested third party, not the person themselves. People say all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. Anyway - yeah, I don't so much have a problem with the article, which is okay as far as it goes. It's just that I don't believe all this is really going anywhere. Psycho-sociology is extraordinarily difficult to construct studies for. A simple voluntary survey won't do it.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Wed, 03 Apr 2013 00:59:08 -0800

Blood, Sweat and Sex: My Hard Life in Porn by Aurora Snow. The performers may look like they're in ecstasy, but the physical pain and endurance that goes into sex for the camera would make an NFL linebacker weep.

By: acb

acb — Wed, 03 Apr 2013 03:49:06 -0800

I also found this 2010 article on the dark triad (i.e. narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism) - also called the "James Bond psychology" - to be a fascinating, and quick, read. The link points to a local file on your computer.

By: CynicalKnight

CynicalKnight — Wed, 03 Apr 2013 08:50:39 -0800

The link points to a local file on your computer. Bow-chikka-wow-wow.

By: k8lin

k8lin — Wed, 03 Apr 2013 18:23:22 -0800

Sorry, y'all - here's the correct link to the 2010 article on the dark triad.