Comments on: Miss International Queen 2013

Miss International Queen 2013

256 — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:06:01 -0800

25 of the most beautiful women in the world vied for the crown, Miss International Queen.

First place went to Miss Brazil, Marcela Ohio; second to Miss USA, Shantell D'Marco; third to Miss Thailand, Nethnapada Kanrayanon.

By: svenni

svenni — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:16:59 -0800

Some context

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:23:00 -0800

Already done the background and beaten to the post. And all I can say vis a vis the first link - God, I LURRRRVE ME SOME Deslide! The first bookmarklet I use on a regular basis (except for the ROT13 one I use around here during spoiler season).

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:24:05 -0800

(And, if it is okay to say so, HOT DIGGITY! That Miss Ohio is quite a tomato!)

By: bearette

bearette — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:31:37 -0800

In some ways I think this is cool- I'm glad if it's a venue through which people can be themselves though they don't fit into standard gender categories and I am all for transgender acceptance and recognition and rights. On the other hand, as a woman I look at it and see a beauty pageant, one of the most sexist institutions ever. Is it less sexist because they are transgender? (not necessarily a rhetorical question, I'd be interested to hear others' views).

By: bearette

bearette — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:36:03 -0800

Also, sometimes I wonder if transgender folks "present" as the gender they have transitioned into so obviously because it gives them a stronger sense of identity? (if their gender is not recognized by society at large then it could bring on more prejudice). Or perhaps I am stereotyping transgender folks.

By: Thing

Thing — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:48:32 -0800

I think trans people are just people, they're not gender warriors.

By: benito.strauss

benito.strauss — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 18:17:24 -0800

One of the most beautiful women I have ever seen was a trans man in San Francisco. The brain went through a few quick flips: That is a gorgeous woman — that's a man — that man is a gorgeous woman. I figure it's best to just acknowledge the confusion and move on.

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 18:47:49 -0800

benito.strauss: "One of the most beautiful women I have ever seen was a trans man in San Francisco. The brain went through a few quick flips: That is a gorgeous woman — that's a man — that man is a gorgeous woman. I figure it's best to just acknowledge the confusion and move on." Keeping in mind the time of year, that reminds me of a funny story. When I was living back in Santa Barbara, lo those many years ago, one Halloween the gang I hung out with got really carried away with costumes. (Mine was some gory but not very perceptible appliances and normal clothing.) One of the men of the group, who was just about as manly a man as a man could man, decided to dress as a woman. That man had people putting him in a hollaback situation. (Is that the term?) (Also, another subset of our group did Alex and his droogs, which spun into an awesome bit of performance art at our local funky coffee shop.)

By: jiawen

jiawen — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 19:39:17 -0800

bearette, holding us trans people to higher standards of gender presentation than cis people is fundamentally unfair. (Not saying that you're necessarily doing that; just explaining.) If cis women can do something, then trans women should be able to do it, too. Personally, I'm also uncomfortable with beauty pageants. But I think there's room for lots of kinds of trans women in the world. benito.strauss, your confusion confuses me. What told you the person was a man? If they were a woman, then they were a trans woman, not a trans man. In case clarification is called for: A trans woman is a woman who is trans, not a person who appears to be a woman but who is 'actually' a man.

By: ArmyOfKittens

ArmyOfKittens — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 05:13:35 -0800

bearette: "Also, sometimes I wonder if transgender folks "present" as the gender they have transitioned into so obviously because it gives them a stronger sense of identity? (if their gender is not recognized by society at large then it could bring on more prejudice). Or perhaps I am stereotyping transgender folks." It's funny because when I walk down the street I can count a hundred cis men and women who are just as "stereotypically" masculine or feminine as any trans man or trans woman you care to name, and yet.

By: The Underpants Monster

The Underpants Monster — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 06:39:28 -0800

I was hoping for some good shots of the national costumes competition; that's my favorite part of the Miss Universe pageant! Their FB page has a bunch of pictures from "Talent Quest & Gala Dinner" that look kind of like national costumes, but they're all a lot more tasteful than the Miss Universe version.

By: nicodine

nicodine — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:47:18 -0800

This was cool to learn about, thanks! The Miss International Queen Facebook page is pretty informative, too. Awards and prizes are also given for Best Talent, Best Evening Gown, Best National Costume, Best Popular Vote, and Miss Congeniality. When I was trying to find more information about the contest I stumbled across a brief blurb about Brazil's "Miss T" contest and its 2013 winner, Raika Ferraz. She'll be Brazil's competitor in the 2014 Miss International Queen, and she said something that I thought was pretty neat: As well as a bouquet and the gleaming tiara, she won an all-expenses-paid excursion to Thailand for the global version of the beauty contest, Miss International Queen 2014, plus the right to a sex change operation in a Bangkok hospital. Ferraz, however, demurred, creating an instant buzz across the gender-bending spectrum where genital surgery is often held up as the final passage to freedom for those convinced they were born in the wrong body. "I love being the way I am," she said.

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:53:06 -0800

Also, sometimes I wonder if transgender folks "present" as the gender they have transitioned into so obviously because it gives them a stronger sense of identity? I've definitely noticed this -- that transgender women sometimes choose things that cisgendered women do not and I wonder if they make those choices for their own comfort or to try to win acceptance from other people or for some other reason that I haven't thought of. I was recently grocery shopping behind a woman who was wearing stilettos and a tight skirt and was just generally way, way dressed up for 2pm on a Saturday at the supermarket. When I eventually went past to her get to the meat section, I realized she was transgender and it made me wonder if she felt like she had to be that dressed up as a woman all the time just to get people to accept her as one. Certainly I felt my privilege then. I can buy ground beef in jeans and a t-shirt and no one is ever going to doubt my credentials as a woman. I'd certainly be a lot less happy (and have a lot more sprained ankles) if I felt like I had to wear a 4-inch heel every time I left the house just so people would accept me as me.

By: The corpse in the library

The corpse in the library — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:05:06 -0800

Eh, you just don't notice the transwomen who are wearing sweats and have their hair in ponytails.

By: benito.strauss

benito.strauss — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:20:50 -0800

jiawen, excuse the confusion. It was back in the 80s, when I certainly didn't have a very developed vocabulary around sex and gender, and I think such issues were even further from the mainstream than they are now. If you care about the details: this person was dressed in a way that read to me as "woman's dressing", tight dress, face made up, etc.. Looking closer at their body, the size and shape made me think that this person was biologically male, especially since this was an area of SF known to be visited by transvestites, and this person was dressed more like 2 AM nightclub than 3 PM running errands. And then my brain shrugged and said "well, this person has quite a few physical markers of the male of the species, but realizes a lot of my ideas of feminine beauty. Sounds like a contradiction, but who cares?"

By: ArmyOfKittens

ArmyOfKittens — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:48:49 -0800

The corpse in the library: "Eh, you just don't notice the transwomen who are wearing sweats and have their hair in ponytails." Sometimes I wear sweats and sometimes I'm high femme and sometimes I'm a tomboy. I have to be careful because I'm dancing on the edge of the myth abyss and may collapse into some sort of fairytale singularity. please excuse my snarky "contributions" to the thread but honestly cis people discussing the gender presentation of trans women is setting off some of the nasty electric traps I keep finding in my brain.

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 10:07:44 -0800

I apologize for setting off your traps. I didn't mean to be ignorant or offensive.

By: tigrrrlily

tigrrrlily — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 11:48:19 -0800

I apologize for setting off your traps. Oh sweet Jesus I'm glad I ⌘-F'd before flagging that.

By: jiawen

jiawen — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 14:43:26 -0800

benito.strauss, hard to say what her internal identification then was, but she was assuredly not a trans man. In any case, she was presenting as a woman, so that's that's what she wanted to be seen as. And don't even get me stated on the whole "biologically male" canard... Suffice to say, i am a trans woman, and I am biologically female. I'm not an android, and my being a woman is real.