Comments on: Steam tunnels of New York

Steam tunnels of New York

carter — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 17:47:46 -0800

105 miles of steam pipes (NYT video) run beneath the streets of New York, delivering steam to 2,000 buildings for heating, cooling, and other purposes. The system is maintained by Con Edison (1 2 3).

See also: 'Underground New York' on NPR. Some previous: 1 2 3 4 5

By: TrialByMedia

TrialByMedia — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 18:13:20 -0800

As an owner of a steam-heated house, I have some serious respect for the people that keep this system operating. I couldn't imagine dealing with the high capacity, high pressure stuff that they're running. My steam system runs on less than 4 oz of pressure and is by far the most finicky system of any type that I've ever dealt with, and I'm a working industrial engineer. Something as simple as a sag in a pipe or some missing insulation can create a frightening banging called water hammer. . If you let too much water sit in the wrong places, the thing could literally tear itself apart given enough time. This has happened to the NYC system at least once. Even a slight film of oil on the boiler water can set off such a racket that you'd think the house was overrun by poltergeists. That said, when it works right, it's the most gloriously comfortable heat you've ever felt.

By: ddbeck

ddbeck — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 18:37:19 -0800

After watching the video and reading up on the steam explosions and attendant deaths, I wonder how the safety of the steam system compares to the electricity running parallel. I know that underground electrical fires happen too, but I couldn't find anything comparable.

By: groda

groda — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 18:39:58 -0800

My steam system runs on less than 4 oz of pressure This unit of measurement was distressing enough to end ten years of daily lurking on Metafilter. GISing it, there are apparently pressure gauges out there with just the word "ounces" on them.

By: ryanrs

ryanrs — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 18:46:44 -0800

Steam power predates your fancy-pants mathematically rigorous system of measurements.

By: TrialByMedia

TrialByMedia — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 18:49:42 -0800

Ounces per square inch, to fill in the blanks. It also has an "inches of water column" scale that will only make sense if you own a steam system.

By: octothorpe

octothorpe — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 18:55:28 -0800

Steam heat definitely scares me. Our house has a hundred+ year old hot water radiator system that works so much better than forced hot air but the idea of have pressurized steam in the walls scares me.

By: Eyebrows McGee

Eyebrows McGee — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:00:07 -0800

I had no idea this was a thing until my kids got a book about New York City utilities, with a section on steam. There's a whole union that grew out of the guys who serviced these, the steamfitters or pipefitters, who deal with high-pressure lines -- that today can include chemicals, fuel, and high-pressure water, as well as steam, and they do a lot of their work in industrial settings. Plumbers handle low-pressure lines like water and sewer and residential gas. Steamfitting is highly skilled labor, and very dangerous when the systems are live because of the high pressure.

By: carter

carter — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:00:47 -0800

Welcome, groda!

By: Fnarf

Fnarf — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:01:20 -0800

There is a similar but smaller system in place in Seattle, which supplies 175 businesses in downtown and First Hill, including the big hospitals and the Seattle Art Museum and Central Library from two plants at either end of downtown. When I was a toddler, I fell and burned my tummy on one of the hot manhole covers crossing the street, causing a scar which is just barely still visible today.

By: ryanrs

ryanrs — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:03:15 -0800

Steam heat definitely scares me. You can blow harder than 4 oz/sqin.

By: TrialByMedia

TrialByMedia — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:04:40 -0800

House systems are designed to work at 1.5 psi or less. When they tried high pressure in the 19th century, houses and apartment buildings had a nasty habit of exploding.

By: octothorpe

octothorpe — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:08:17 -0800

ryanrs: "Steam heat definitely scares me. You can blow harder than 4 oz/sqin." I didn't say it was a rational fear.

By: Monday, stony Monday

Monday, stony Monday — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:23:31 -0800

inches or cm of water column is pretty common all over, no? Not in SI, but used all over.

By: groda

groda — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:30:39 -0800

It also has an "inches of water column" scale that will only make sense if you own a steam system. Oh, in H₂O is familiar alright. In the US, a steam turbine might measure its pressure at the inlet in psi, but in in H₂O at the outlet. Also, m H₂O is very common in the rest of the world, and very convenient.

By: TrialByMedia

TrialByMedia — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:34:33 -0800

Interesting. I guess I've only seen it in the context of my own system, where it tells you exactly how far you're backing water up into the returns at any given pressure.

By: zachlipton

zachlipton — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:45:08 -0800

Even San Francisco has a small steam system in the Financial District. Nowhere near as big as the NYC system, which covers the better part of Manhattan. My freshman year of college in a rather old dorm, I had a steam radiator directly next to my bed. The valve was broken and it took a large number of attempts for maintenance to get it fixed. In the meantime, I'd wake in the middle of the night to find that my rather tiny dorm room was over 90ºF. Hot plates were, naturally, forbidden, but that radiator would have made for a pretty good substitute.

By: Jumpin Jack Flash

Jumpin Jack Flash — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 20:32:25 -0800

Not just for big cities, Hibbing, MN with a population around 16,000 has a municipal steam system.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 20:50:54 -0800

inches or cm of water column is pretty common all over, no? Not in SI, but used all over. inches of mercury is the standard for atmospheric pressure in the US (and also for [old?] car vacuum systems, as I learned when replacing the choke pull-off in my granpa's old Caprice).

By: sneebler

sneebler — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 21:03:11 -0800

What does it say that I thought this was about, you know, Steam?

By: notsnot

notsnot — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 21:07:35 -0800

We've got steam radiators in our house. When we were trying to sell it a few months ago, some prospective buyers were turned off. I though, "Just as well; if you don't know how awesome steam can be..." Ours is a one-pipe system. The boiler creates steam, which travels up the upper part of the pipes to the radiators. THe steam condenses to liquid water, which then travels down the lower part of the same pipes. Pretty ingenious. And man, it's like having a fireplace in every room - and none of that hot-cold-hot-cold cycling you get from a forced-air system.

By: Kadin2048

Kadin2048 — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:24:41 -0800

I've lived in some houses with steam heat and they definitely do feel 'warmer' than forced air or even baseboard hot-water radiator houses. I don't really understand why that is, though. Do domestic boilers typically just put out more heat (in other words, use more energy) than typical forced air or hot water systems? Or is it just something psychological about having the heat come from a single big cast iron radiator in each room, as radiant heat instead of convection? It's strange. I don't know if I'll ever have a steam-heated house, though, since they aren't especially compatible with air conditioning, and I'm not especially compatible with a lack thereof. But man, they are pretty elegant systems for heating a house.

By: Chutzler

Chutzler — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 23:10:27 -0800

What does it say that I thought this was about, you know, Steam? I heard once that there was a way to control all the steam, and that all you needed was a valve.

By: El Mariachi

El Mariachi — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 00:51:22 -0800

The miserable Brooklyn hovel I lived in had no heat for as long as two days during the coldest winter in decades. The clanking and hissing when the steam came back on remains one of the most comforting sounds I can imagine to this day.

By: sfenders

sfenders — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 03:47:34 -0800

Or is it just something psychological about having the heat come from a single big cast iron radiator in each room, as radiant heat instead of convection? It isn't just psychological, there's a substantial difference in the physics of the situation. I've spent lots of time in a house with both a large fireplace and forced-air heating. Radiant heat from a large surface area keeps you a lot warmer for the same air temperature. It radiates out and warms up the walls more than the air as well, making the infrared environment warmer all around. There's a wall thermometer not too far from the fire, and when the fire is on and it reads 17 C, to me it feels roughly as warm in that room as when it's not and the temperature reads 20 C.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 05:32:41 -0800

The university I attended was criss-crossed with steam tunnels, which made for excellent commuting between building in inclement weather, as well as for general exploring. There were caches of old Civil Defense supplies stored in dedicated rooms down there. Big containers of hard candy, survival biscuits, medical instruments, huge bottles of 1960's-era phenobarbital, and, of course, the ubiquitous water barrels, which make for perfect modern-day trash cans.

By: Monday, stony Monday

Monday, stony Monday — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 09:00:05 -0800

Not steam, but villages in Europe will sometimes have a district heating system, like Flachau in Austria.

By: lupus_yonderboy

lupus_yonderboy — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 10:27:32 -0800

I know about these steam pipes well - one of them blew me up once (I'm the musician wearing a red tie...)

By: SPrintF

SPrintF — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 16:25:27 -0800

"Lord, Thou hast made this world below the shadow of a dream, An', taught by time, I tak' it so - exceptin' always Steam." — M'Andrews Hymn, Kipling

By: wierdo

wierdo — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 17:25:25 -0800

Tulsa also has a (small) steam and chilled water system serving the downtown area. The waste heat is used to generate electricity, so it's even relatively efficient. Central steam and chilled water is far more efficient than each individual building having their own plant anyway to begin with, so it's particularly nice in that context.

By: The Zeroth Law

The Zeroth Law — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 17:25:26 -0800

huge bottles of 1960's-era phenobarbital That would have made my university experience significantly less stressful. And productive.

By: Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The

Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 07:33:26 -0800

This unit of measurement was distressing enough to end ten years of daily lurking on Metafilter.