Comments on: Rome

Rome

homunculus — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 21:40:28 -0800

Mary Beard: why ancient Rome matters to the modern world. "Failure in Iraq, debates about freedom, expenses scandals, sex advice ... the Romans seem versions of ourselves. But then there's the slavery and the babies on rubbish heaps. We need to understand ancient Rome, but should we take lessons from it?" [Via]

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 22:16:44 -0800

It's like being waterboarded with reasons for Classics majors to exist

By: happyroach

happyroach — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 00:34:25 -0800

The main lessons we should take from Rome is the dangers of concentrating power and stealth in a tiny elite, and being rolled by intolerant Christians.

By: No-sword

No-sword — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:42:36 -0800

Also togas. Uh, togae.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 03:27:15 -0800

Our own world would be immeasurably the poorer, and immeasurably less comprehensible to us, if we did not continue to interact with the Roman past. Si roma perit sic salvum est? Pretty much everything as it turns out.

By: the phlegmatic king

the phlegmatic king — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 04:57:58 -0800

Beard's book about Pompeii is one of my favorite things I've read this year; it helped me picture day to day Roman life like never before. I guess in the end, I don't really care whether Rome matters to the modern world. I mean, I'm sure it does, but I'm so fascinated by it on its own terms that the argument is superfluous.

By: benito.strauss

benito.strauss — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 07:31:11 -0800

phlegmatic king, I don't know if you do historical novels, but I recently read "Master and God", by Lindsey David (thanks to this recommendation), and it really gave me a picture of quotidian life in Domitian's Rome. I can't vouch for the historical accuracy, but it didn't feel fakey to me, and having the details woven into the life stories of the two main characters, as opposed to described as history helped me feel embedded in the place and time.

By: the phlegmatic king

the phlegmatic king — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 07:33:19 -0800

Right on, I'll jump all over that. Thanks!

By: Hypatia

Hypatia — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 07:34:41 -0800

An earlier AskMe thread mentioned the text From Abortion to Pederasty: Addressing Difficult Topics in the Classics Classroom, which I was able to flip through. Some of the contributing authors make an excellent point: we could argue for keeping classics merely because of the intense visceral reactions students have to them. As an example, they said that American college students would absolutely refuse to discuss slavery in the American context--would simply shut down any conversations--but would discuss slavery and its meaning in a classical context--and that classics might be one of the few ways we could really confront the horror of our own history.

By: the phlegmatic king

the phlegmatic king — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 07:43:53 -0800

Man, this article is just straight catnip: Soundings off the coast of Sicily have even located on the sea bed the detritus of the last great naval battle in the first Punic war between Rome and Carthage in the mid-third-century BCE – including the metal rams from the prows of the ships inscribed with appropriate messages (one Carthaginian specimen has words to the effect of "Up yours, Rome")

By: leotrotsky

leotrotsky — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 07:47:37 -0800

The main lessons we should take from Rome is the dangers of concentrating power and stealth in a tiny elite, and being rolled by intolerant Christians. ...and don't destroy Carthage. It's all downhill after that. What?

By: rdone

rdone — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 07:59:24 -0800

Ms. Beard illuminates why the greatest boast of the age was "Cives Romanus sum:" the Roman Empire grew great by making foreigners citizens of Rome. The USA's greatness also rests on its ability to turn foreigners into American citizens. If the Nation of Immigrants cannot be sustained because of xenophobia, the Decline is underway already. Fall at 11.

By: fraula

fraula — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:06:41 -0800

Some of the contributing authors make an excellent point: we could argue for keeping classics merely because of the intense visceral reactions students have to them. As an example, they said that American college students would absolutely refuse to discuss slavery in the American context--would simply shut down any conversations--but would discuss slavery and its meaning in a classical context--and that classics might be one of the few ways we could really confront the horror of our own history. Literature is quite similar in that reading literary fiction improves empathy. There are believable characters we can relate to, but don't necessarily judge as we would ourselves/our own civilization. There's a degree of removal that paradoxically makes confronting issues possible, and helps us see ourselves and others in a different light. The article I linked also mentions empathy "filling the gaps", which is what we have with the classics too.

By: supermedusa

supermedusa — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:49:55 -0800

thanks for this!! I will be visiting Herculaneum in the spring so I've got some reading to do!

By: Segundus

Segundus — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:06:08 -0800

No doubt it was very different if you belonged to a bastard or were in the mines, but I got the impression from the Pompeii exhibition that being a Roman house slave was a vastly freer, more comfortable, and more egalitarian life than working at Downton Abbey.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:08:36 -0800

I just read a quote from Adam Michnik that resonates with this; he's talking about how history is "a teacher of life ... always a conversation with the Other, the one who thinks differently, who is differently situated," that "the truth of history is often polyphonic" and "historical wounds can only heal in a climate of free debate, in which everyone can cry out about one's own wrongs, pains, and sufferings":

The world is full of inquisitors and heretics, liars and those lied to, terrorists and the terrorized. There is still someone dying at Thermopylae, someone drinking a glass of hemlock, someone crossing the Rubicon, someone drawing up a proscription list.

I absolutely believe that, and I think people who claim history is irrelevant will never understand their own lives, let alone the world they live in.

By: eclectist

eclectist — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:16:44 -0800

I've always thought it odd that there was any question about why you would study any language, or culture, of the past: to better understand the human condition, which can teach lessons or not, according to the student. That Roman civilization was often singled out for this criticism, especially considering the import that her successors put on their Roman inheritance, seemed particularly baffling.

By: Rangi

Rangi — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 11:36:05 -0800

Ms. Beard illuminates why the greatest boast of the age was "Cives Romanus sum:" the Roman Empire grew great by making foreigners citizens of Rome. The USA's greatness also rests on its ability to turn foreigners into American citizens. Rome had many degrees of citizenship. If they conquered a territory or made treaties with it, the inhabitants might be allowed to travel freely, own land, or marry, but not vote. I don't imagine either political party would support a policy of "open borders with Mexico, charge them taxes, give them benefits, but don't let them vote," even if it would actually be a workable compromise.

By: the man of twists and turns

the man of twists and turns — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:00:41 -0800

Good post, thanks!

By: clavdivs

clavdivs — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:23:31 -0800

2000 year old cat prints found roman roof tile!

By: andraste

andraste — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 18:38:32 -0800

I think people who claim history is irrelevant will never understand their own lives, let alone the world they live in. I would favourite this a hundred times if I could.

By: clavdivs

clavdivs — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 21:41:59 -0800

"That can be arranged" -Cicero

By: Helga-woo

Helga-woo — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 15:19:49 -0800

What's interesting about that cat print tile is that it's not an unusual find, it's not even a great example, but that particular one got picked up by the press and went viral. Really, just google image search "Roman tile cat" and enjoy. And once you've done that search for "Roman tile dog" and then for real tingles, Roman tile hobnail". The people of the past were people like we are, they were as intelligent as we are, they lived and loved and laughed as we do. Sometimes they accidently stood on their drying tiles. But they did things differently too, for reasons we wouldn't understand. And if that isn't a reason to learn all we can about them, I don't know what is....