Comments on: Surprising Vaccine and Alzheimer's News

Surprising Vaccine and Alzheimer's News

storybored — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 16:43:25 -0800

Do Viruses Trigger Alzheimer's? "In the summer of 2024 several groups of scientists published a curious finding: people vaccinated against shingles were less likely to develop dementia than their unvaccinated peers. Two preprints came from the lab of Pascal Geldsetzer at Stanford University. Analysing medical records from Britain and Australia, the researchers concluded that around a fifth of dementia diagnoses could be averted through the original shingles vaccine, which contains live varicella-zoster virus. Two other studies, one by GSK, a pharmaceutical company, and another by a group of academics in Britain, also reported that a newer "recombinant" vaccine, which is more effective at preventing shingles than the live version, appeared to confer even greater protection against dementia." ungated.

Also: ""All these associational studies suffer from the basic problem that people who get vaccinated have different health behaviors than those who don't," said Pascal Geldsetzer, MD, PhD, assistant professor of medicine and senior author of the new study. "In general, they're seen as not being solid enough evidence to make any recommendations on."... A natural experiment But two years ago, Geldsetzer recognized a fortuitous "natural experiment" in the rollout of the shingles vaccine in Wales that seemed to sidestep the bias. The vaccine used at that time contained a live-attenuated, or weakened, form of the virus. The vaccination program, which began Sept. 1, 2013, specified that anyone who was 79 on that date was eligible for the vaccine for one year. (People who were 78 would become eligible the next year for one year, and so on.) People who were 80 or older on Sept. 1, 2013, were out of luck — they would never become eligible for the vaccine. These rules, designed to ration the limited supply of the vaccine, also meant that the slight difference in age between 79- and 80-year-olds made all the difference in who had access to the vaccine. By comparing people who turned 80 just before Sept. 1, 2013, with people who turned 80 just after, the researchers could isolate the effect of being eligible for the vaccine. The circumstances, well-documented in the country's health records, were about as close to a randomized controlled trial as you could get without conducting one, Geldsetzer said. The researchers looked at the health records of more than 280,000 older adults who were 71 to 88 years old and did not have dementia at the start of the vaccination program. They focused their analysis on those closest to either side of the eligibility threshold — comparing people who turned 80 in the week before with those who turned 80 in the week after. "We know that if you take a thousand people at random born in one week and a thousand people at random born a week later, there shouldn't be anything different about them on average," Geldsetzer said. "They are similar to each other apart from this tiny difference in age." The same proportion of both groups likely would have wanted to get the vaccine, but only half, those almost 80, were allowed to by the eligibility rules. "What makes the study so powerful is that it's essentially like a randomized trial with a control group — those a little bit too old to be eligible for the vaccine — and an intervention group — those just young enough to be eligible," Geldsetzer said. Protection against dementia Over the next seven years, the researchers compared the health outcomes of people closest in age who were eligible and ineligible to receive the vaccine. By factoring in actual vaccination rates — about half of the population who were eligible received the vaccine, compared with almost none of the people who were ineligible — they could derive the effects of receiving the vaccine. As expected, the vaccine reduced the occurrence over that seven-year period of shingles by about 37% for people who received the vaccine, similar to what had been found in clinical trials of the vaccine. (The live-attenuated vaccine's effectiveness wanes over time.) This huge protective signal was there, any which way you looked at the data." By 2020, one in eight older adults, who were by then 86 and 87, had been diagnosed with dementia. But those who received the shingles vaccine were 20% less likely to develop dementia than the unvaccinated. "It was a really striking finding," Geldsetzer said. "This huge protective signal was there, any which way you looked at the data.""

By: storybored

storybored — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 16:54:10 -0800

But in an interesting twist it may be the adjuvant used in the vaccine that provides the benefit. One open question is whether people who have gotten the chicken-pox vaccine have greater protection against the disease. If it turns out that it's the adjuvant, the answer would more likely be no. Other unknown: while risk is reduced via the vaccine, it isn't clear how long the protections lasts.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 16:55:47 -0800

By: lalochezia

lalochezia — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 17:15:22 -0800

'lagniappe' is sometimes onomatopoeic

By: kristi

kristi — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 17:30:17 -0800

I remember a year or two ago hearing that flu shots were associated with a reduced risk of dementia, and doing a quick search to find a link I could post here, I discovered Several vaccines associated with reduced risk of Alzheimer's disease in adults 65 and older:

Prior vaccination against tetanus and diphtheria, with or without pertussis (Tdap/Td); herpes zoster (HZ), better known as shingles; and pneumococcus are all associated with a reduced risk for developing Alzheimer's disease, according to new research from UTHealth Houston. ... The new findings come just over a year after Schulz's team published another study in the journal, which found that people who received at least one influenza vaccine were 40% less likely than their unvaccinated peers to develop Alzheimer's disease.

This is all SO interesting, such great research. I love science. Thank you so much for posting this, storybored! I'm delighted to learn that the shingles vaccine is associated with a lower risk of Alzheimer's, and pleasantly surprised to have found that these other vaccines may be helpful too. This is great and encouraging news.

By: rikschell

rikschell — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 18:03:42 -0800

Although it's kind of terrible news in America where the war on vaccination continues apace.

By: jamjam

jamjam — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 18:10:45 -0800

Analysing medical records from Britain and Australia, the researchers concluded that around a fifth of dementia diagnoses could be averted through the original shingles vaccine, which contains live varicella-zoster virus. Two other studies, one by GSK, a pharmaceutical company, and another by a group of academics in Britain, also reported that a newer "recombinant" vaccine, which is more effective at preventing shingles than the live version, appeared to confer even greater protection against dementia." This seems to leave open the possibility that shingles themselves could be effective in preventing dementia. Just on its face, it seems probable from this that shingles would be more effective than the live attenuated vaccine in staving off dementia.

By: Big Al 8000

Big Al 8000 — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 18:26:27 -0800

This seems to leave open the possibility that shingles themselves could be effective in preventing dementia. *dog with puzzled look.gif* I believe it is implying the exact opposite.

By: wmo

wmo — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 18:46:49 -0800

i gotta aks my mom about my fathers vaccination records.

By: Slackermagee

Slackermagee — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 19:00:40 -0800

HIV can result in HAND (HIV Associated Neurocognitive Disorder) and COVID brain fog is a thing not yet well characterized. It makes sense that putting as many barriers up to something messing with the grey matter would help. Especially with that fraud scandal a while ago muddying the Alzheimer's waters.

By: Emmy Noether

Emmy Noether — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 20:10:09 -0800

This seems to leave open the possibility that shingles themselves could be effective in preventing dementia. Just on its face, it seems probable from this that shingles would be more effective than the live attenuated vaccine in staving off dementia. I believe it is implying the exact opposite. If one's mental model is that developing immunity to VZV reduces dementia risk then getting shingles (herpes zoster) would seem to confer the same benefit. The research paper shows that the dementia risk seems to be caused by the disease process and that preventing zoster gives the benefit. "Having a herpes zoster diagnosis before the first vaccination dose was associated with an increased hazard of dementia (HR 1.47; 95 % CI: 1.42-1.52; P < .001) compared to those with no diagnosis. Antivirals used to treat zoster infection were protective against dementia (HR 0.42; 95 % CI: 0.40-0.44; P < .001)."

By: netowl

netowl — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 20:21:50 -0800

The effect of getting full shingles vs. the vaccine has not been studied, as far as I know. Earlier in the thread was the idea that the adjuvant itself had an effect. That hasn't been studied either, as far as I know. For me, the answer is further study. The hypotheses need testing, so test them. Maybe there are forces resisting that, and I'd push back. But other than that, just let science work itself out.

By: They sucked his brains out!

They sucked his brains out! — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 20:54:59 -0800

HIV can result in HAND (HIV Associated Neurocognitive Disorder) and COVID brain fog is a thing not yet well characterized Not to disagree with you but gently I might not necessarily associate them or derive any specific insight from them here as far as what the protective effect is from vaccination. The former is caused by the consequences of progressive and untreated HIV infection on the immune system, while the damage that Covid causes in some who are infected seems to linger after the infection or reinfection has cleared. Herpes zoster or VZV can lie dormant for decades in neuronal tissue before reactivating. Neither of the two aforementioned viruses appear to affect cells in the nervous system directly in the way that VZV does.

By: storybored

storybored — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 22:06:12 -0800

I discovered Several vaccines associated with reduced risk of Alzheimer's disease in adults 65 and older Curiouser and curiouser! Thanks for that article. That's new to me. The Tdap (tetanus/diptheria) vaccine does not use the same adjutant as the Shingrix vaccine. So if the Tdap observation is valid, the adjutant theory is dead. It might then be (as claimed in the article you linked, kristi), that it's the general nature of vaccines which is conveying protection against Alzheimers.

By: mulberry

mulberry — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 22:21:44 -0800

So my observation, with an n=2 of my aunt and uncle. They both got shingles a couple of years ago (they were not vaccinated for it). Within three months, their cognitive decline was apparent, within six months they were no longer capable of holding a drivers licence, within 12 months, their families were looking for supported living for them as they were unable to care for each other. I'll take the shot, thanks.

By: mbo

mbo — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 22:32:32 -0800

Got Shingrix (free here for everyone here in NZ at 65) my reactions were minimal (unlike y2Karl above) so YMMV, please get the shots (even though they are not cheap). If you live in NZ a warning: it's only free if you get it the year in which you turn 65 (not before or after) so don't put it off, see your GP - remind whānau when they turn 65

By: kristi

kristi — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 23:05:11 -0800

It might then be (as claimed in the article you linked, kristi), that it's the general nature of vaccines which is conveying protection against Alzheimers. I remember I heard about the flu vaccine connection right before I went in for a flu/Covid shot (so, around this time, last year, or the year before), and I mentioned it to the person giving me my shot and she had just heard it too, so - yeah, I feel like there's a bunch of recent research pointing to surprising side benefits from various vaccines. (And now I'm thinking: the Covid vaccine is quite different from the others, right? being an mRNA vaccine ... so I wonder whether it'll turn out to have a surprise anti-dementia correlation or not.) I never used to bother about vaccines (specifically flu shots) one way or another; I got my major vaccines but just ... didn't get the flu, so didn't really feel like it was worth the bother to go in and get the shot. Then I read Why We Immunize (an essay I associate with the phrase "teeny tiny headstones", so I always think that's what it's called), and I discovered that I could help herd immunity by getting vaccinated; I could make the world a slightly better place by getting a flu shot, even if I personally tended not to get the flu, and that turned me into an enthusiastic collector of vaccinations. I talked about it on this thread about 20 cases of measles in New York, back in 2014. Vaccines are a miracle, and the opposite or corollary of a miracle: the indescribably vast benefit to all living creatures* born of decades and decades of painstakingly careful, thoughtful research, testing, careful medical science. Just try to count up the lives saved - the individual minutes and hours and days that individual children and parents get to spend, alive, with their families; get to spend going about their day instead of slowly dying in a hospital or a dark bedroom. I am grateful beyond words to every researcher I know - Jenner and Pasteur and Salk - and the hundreds of people whose names I don't know - that I am living in a time when we can stave off measles and mumps and diptheria and tetanus and pertussis and Covid and flu and shingles. Think of the hours and days and years lost to those diseases; then think of the hours and days and years gained by those vaccines. Think of them. Think of every hour with your child, your parent, your partner, your friend, that you have because you were not taken by measles, or Covid, or polio, or pertussis. And to learn about this possibility that we are gaining more days of coherence, more days of connection and fulfillment, within ourselves, with those we love, by avoiding or delaying dementia, as a free bonus side effect of staving off those other thieves of life - How lucky we are, to be alive right now. I hope there will be much more research into these promising findings. I hope we can take some of those minutes and hours and days we get, thanks to these vaccines, and dedicate that gift toward learning more, finding more ways to keep one another free of coughing and gasping and fighting off illnesses we could choose to avoid. Who would have thought that vaccines, of all things, would make me wax poetic. (Perhaps another unstudied side effect.) * I have been watching a live cam of a kitten shelter for comfort and hope in the dark times. The kittens get their vaccines.

By: BobTheScientist

BobTheScientist — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 01:57:28 -0800

Thanks for the heads up. In most of these stories it's the interaction terms ITITS. It requires a genetic predisposition (often a variant of the hypervariable HLA system) AND an environmental insult (often a virus, of which there are so many) to set the immune system off on one.

For most people, getting the 'flu jab is a good thing, but for some young euro-people in 2009 [who happened to be DQB1*0602 +ve) getting the jab triggered narcolepsy. It's complicated: 15% of us are DQB1*0602 +ve but only a teeny fraction get narcolepsy: even only a fraction who got the jab AND were DQB1*0602 +ve.
Likewise in any one year many of us will cop a dose of Campylobacter-shits from a dodgy chicken nugget but only a teeny fraction go on to develop Guillain-Barré sysndrome. But the odds ratio of the association is compelling.
Having the CCR5-Δ32 variant about your person gives you significant protection against HIV-1 . . . but will make you more susceptible to West Nile Virus
The highest population rates of multiple sclerosis MS can be found in Nova Scotia and Orkney, Scotland.

In a perfick world, we'd know what all the predispositions were and give such people a pass during immunization drives. It would also help take-up rates if The Man undertook the care of those who take one for the team in their adverse reaction rather than lawyering up and characterizing them as fakers, malingerers and shirkers.

By: eirias

eirias — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 04:06:09 -0800

Thanks for this link. I spent about 12 years in Alzheimer's research and my favorite wildcat hypothesis is that amyloid is an immune peptide that can trap pathogens and, if not cleared properly, can aggregate into the plaques that cause Alzheimer's disease. My former PI (much more knowledgeable than me) hated this idea and thought it was for kooks, I feel like I should say that up front; this piece is a fairly even-handed summary of the state of research in this area as of last spring, and here is Day 1 of a symposium NIA convened on the topic 4 years ago, which is all over the map.

By: tiny frying pan

tiny frying pan — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 04:31:30 -0800

Amazing that even on Metafilter we have hints of what seems like anti vaxx thought.

By: waving

waving — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 06:14:58 -0800

I was involved in a malaria vaccine study about 20 years ago. The data clearly showed that the vaccine showed protection, however, it was not above what the adjuvant showed. Adjuvant showing some protection is nothing new, the whole reason we use them is because they the activate innate immune system, which is necessary to activate acquired immunity (danger signals). Having long-term effects like this is new to me.

By: latkes

latkes — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 09:58:52 -0800

When I heard about this study I literally immediately scheduled my shingles vaxination. I was worried that we don't get the live vaccine anymore, but this other research showing a possibly even stronger reduction (stronger than 20% reduction??) with Shingrix is exciting to me. It's worth emphasizing that if the effect found in this research is accurate, this would be the single most effective preventative intervention against Alzheimer's that is known.

By: nofundy

nofundy — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 17:41:05 -0800

Seems that viral infections of many different varities can increase the chances of dementia?

By: Emmy Noether

Emmy Noether — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 22:30:56 -0800

The big difference between the shingles vaccine data and the influenza data is that the cutoff date for eligibility for the shingles vaccine gives you data that's very close to a randomized controlled trial. The influenza studies are observational, comparing people who chose to get the shot with people who didn't and noting there's an association between getting the influenza vaccine and lower risk of dementia. Since the folks who chose to get the shot may also have other health behaviors that reduce the risk of dementia, we can't say that the influenza vaccine reduces the risk of dementia.

By: Pouteria

Pouteria — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 23:43:44 -0800

When I took the 1st Shingrix shot, I got so nauseated that I nearly hurled. The folks at Country Doctor knew that was the common reaction but refrained from letting me know beforehand. The 2nd shot was no big deal. So, this is a totally awesome lagniappe. posted by y2karl Similar experience to me. I didn't get nausea, but the 2-3 days after the first shot were horrible – strong flu-like symptoms (without any respiratory infection), semi-febrile, hot and cold flushes, mild raised temperature, and just felt like shit and stayed in bed. The worst vaccine reaction I have had as an adult. Second shot was much better. Felt a bit off and took it fairly easy for a couple of days. Otherwise okay. No regrets, though. There will be a range of reactions, of course. But if you are getting it, probably wise to not plan anything for the next 3-4 days, at least for the first shot.

By: waving

waving — Fri, 03 Oct 2025 04:51:03 -0800

GLP-1 is showing promise in preventing dementia. Man, this drug is amazing given its effect on diabetes, obesity, addiction and dementia.

By: mbo

mbo — Fri, 03 Oct 2025 16:12:36 -0800

Shingles is caused by childhood chickenpox virus living on in your nerves, I wonder if the difference in response depends on whether or not you actually had chickenpox

By: gentlyepigrams

gentlyepigrams — Fri, 03 Oct 2025 22:10:28 -0800

As a woman whose maternal line is full of women with Alzheimer's, every discovery I read about Alzheimer's makes me feel like I will have a better remaining lifespan. I know some of my fellow Americans like to shit on science research and especially vaccine-related research, but I am grateful every day for folks out there doing the work.

By: Don Pepino

Don Pepino — Sun, 05 Oct 2025 13:42:40 -0800

Half a week feverish would certainly suck, but shingles! The horror! Your whole torso or, worse, your face, blisters and feels like it's on fire? Plus potential blindness? Naw, no, huhuh. I had poison ivy a couple of summers in my youth, and, of course, chicken pox. I do not like things going wrong with skin. You can't sleep. At all. For days. And that was all just itch, not searing agonizing screaming pain. No, no shingles for me, little lord jesus, please and thank you. (And they didn't tell me a thing about the shot causing problems whereas I get told every flu shot/covid shot/whatever that it could cause mild fever symptoms--and flu and covid shots do occasionally give me a minifever whereas shingrix was a breeze both times, so I think problems post shingrix might be relatively rare.)