Seeking God, or Peter Thiel, in Silicon Valley - "When tech luminaries talk about their Christian faith, people listen."*
posted by kliuless at 1:09 AM on April 22 [4 favorites]

Dear God, save us from your followers
posted by kokaku at 1:13 AM on April 22 [22 favorites]

If we had think pieces in this vein in the early Middle Ages:

"Feudal lords turning to Christian piety in surprising numbers after discovering true Christianity is about killing Muslims and Jews and stealing their stuff"

I'm a Christian, but I'm not going to be impressed with this kind of phenomenon until the Christianity people are getting excited about has something to do with the life and teachings of Jesus.
posted by nangua at 1:49 AM on April 22 [19 favorites]

OMG you guys, that's not what I said
posted by chavenet at 2:27 AM on April 22 [5 favorites]

OMG you guys, that's not what I said

Surely Jesus would be saying "O I'm G."
posted by rory at 2:56 AM on April 22 [6 favorites]

I was getting students to read Paulina Borsook's late-'90s writing about technolibertarianism in the late 2000s and early 2010s and wondering as time went on if it was getting a bit old hat, but ha ha ha no, excellent preparation for the 2025 hellscape there. Might have to re-read her 2000 book Cyberselfish to remind myself how right she was.
posted by rory at 3:03 AM on April 22 [7 favorites]

Also, Talia Lavin's books Culture Warlords and Wild Faith seem relevant to this discussion too. I haven't read them yet but have been impressed by her other writing and they're very much on the To Read pile.
posted by rory at 3:08 AM on April 22 [6 favorites]

Having read the article in a bit more depth, it's remarkable how many times Jesus is appealed to in a way that makes it obvious that the only purpose of the appeal is to give a spiritual veneer to what the entrepreneur-driven, California capitalism that the person already believed in. I guess this is what it must have been like to have been a Buddhist for the last fifty years watching folks talk about how their meditation practices have given them peace after laying people off and screwing over their customers.
posted by nangua at 3:25 AM on April 22 [30 favorites]

I'll probably have to go back after work and read this, but with the caveat that I haven't even cracked the first page of it: Fuck all these guys. The only thing they believe in is power and ego, and anything they say or do to advance themselves is just another hack to get access to deeper levels of the system.

I mean, Christianity? Really?? Jesus of Nazareth would have some choice words about these dudes, let me tell you.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 4:26 AM on April 22 [12 favorites]

I¡¯ve been an atheist since the turn of the century but reading this was a frustrating exercise in not saying ¡°you¡¯re doing it wrong¡± every few paragraphs. The author¡¯s lazy pastiche of Silicon Valley liberalism was annoyingly incomplete in service of the narrative ¨C how can you say Christians in hiding without mentioning the strong and fully out cohort of born-agains in the 70-90s (born again programmers were practically a clich¨¦ at times) or the Mormons who were never huge in number but certainly weren¡¯t closeted? ¨C but the deeper flaw (or perhaps guise, since it appears to be intentional) was not interrogating the specific views people felt the need to conceal or considering which core Christian beliefs they were conspicuously not following. People weren¡¯t getting ostracized for things like practing forgiveness, treating people of all races as brothers, helping immigrants or the poor ¨C things which Jesus strongly commanded his followers do ¨C but they were getting criticized for being racist, attacking the poor, or demonizing gay people (a group about which Jesus had no strong messages).

Looking at those gaps, it becomes apparent that this not about Christianity in general but something like the prosperity gospel which serve as a post hoc justification for the right-wing politics the people cited want to engage in without critique. It¡¯s especially hard to reconcile many of the names listed with Jesus¡¯ strong warnings about wealth when several of the people mentioned could individually make transformative changes for millions of lives with no impact on their lifestyle or comfort.
posted by adamsc at 4:44 AM on April 22 [44 favorites]

it's remarkable how many times Jesus is appealed to in a way that makes it obvious that the only purpose of the appeal is to give a spiritual veneer to what the entrepreneur-driven, California capitalism that the person already believed in.

Remarkable in a sense, but really wholly predictable and banal. Religion has always been in support of patriarchy. Now that male silicon valley execs aren't hoodie-wearing wunderkind, they've stopped pretending to be atheists and now they're pretending to be Christians.
posted by AlSweigart at 4:48 AM on April 22 [8 favorites]

Jesus¡¯ strong warnings about wealth

When The Beatles were dallying with eastern religions, someone wrote, ¡°If they went to Christianity, Jesus would tell them to give all their money away.¡±
posted by Lemkin at 4:54 AM on April 22 [4 favorites]

They¡¯re scooting right up to some Divine Right stuff here.
posted by tehgubner at 5:05 AM on April 22 [3 favorites]

"You're not making tech any better. You're just making Christianity worse."
posted by ocschwar at 5:13 AM on April 22 [15 favorites]

What was once radical is now mundane: Burning Man is slouching toward Coachella...

is there a difference [tiktok]
posted by HearHere at 5:14 AM on April 22 [1 favorite]

I'm not going to be impressed with this kind of phenomenon until the Christianity people are getting excited about has something to do with the life and teachings of Jesus.

Agree - I wish churches would go back to doing just that :(
posted by low_horrible_immoral at 5:53 AM on April 22 [3 favorites]

If you want to make "fetch" happen, it's useful (and easier!) to seed the media with anonymous quotes instead of doing fact-finding journalism, and then repeat them over and over until people accept it as a new norm.

Anyway, here's a list of the quotes from this article:

Christianity Was ¡°Borderline Illegal¡± in Silicon Valley.

Nobody said this. This was a line from the fictional HBO comedy series, "Silicon Valley".

I wrote, then erased, the rest of the quotes. They aren't any better than the first one. They're all anonymous people-on-the-internet-are-saying bullshit that I won't bother repeating here.

Reporting on what fascists say at face value is repeating fascist propaganda.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:46 AM on April 22 [34 favorites]

"You're not making tech any better. You're just making Christianity worse."

I'm always down for a "King of the Hill" reference.
posted by grubi at 7:31 AM on April 22 [5 favorites]

Having read the article in a bit more depth, it's remarkable how many times Jesus is appealed to in a way that makes it obvious that the only purpose of the appeal is to give a spiritual veneer to what the entrepreneur-driven, California capitalism that the person already believed in.
nangua

"God/the gods wants me to do what I already wanted to do" is true of all Christians (and all religions) everywhere throughout history.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:12 AM on April 22 [4 favorites]

I understand Peter Thiel takes the rite of communion very literally.
posted by Nelson at 8:22 AM on April 22 [2 favorites]

"God/the gods wants me to do what I already wanted to do" is true of all Christians (and all religions) everywhere throughout history.

that is so reductive as to be meaningless

there are many ways religion is used to justify and rationalize self-denial, often in harmful ways.

there are places of worship that promote messages of doubt, humility, and radical questioning, in seeking positive outcomes. unsurprisingly many of these churches are on the verge of closing their doors due to lack of attendance (or have long ago closed their doors)

you do not need to be religious to find this, but the organizing factor doesn't hurt. to make sweeping statements that all religions and their adherents are about (a thing) is not useful
posted by ginger.beef at 8:26 AM on April 22 [9 favorites]

It's entirely useful, and to bring it back to the topic and specific religion at hand, I've said this in other threads but I'm absolutely sick of the "this isn't really Christian/what Jesus taught" you're seeing in this thread and so many other ones being a Jew whose immediate family and ancestors going back centuries have been on the receiving end of Christian love.

The rich and powerful embracing Christianity and using it to justify their positions is absolutely 100% in line with how Christianity has always been practiced, to the point that objecting it's somehow a perversion of "real" Christianity is frankly ridiculous. "Don't judge us by the past 2000 years of our behavior" is a comfortable position for Christians uncomfortable with their history but, no. Own it.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:51 AM on April 22 [12 favorites]

I'll respond to your post from my experience, thanks

I'm making no claims about "real" Christianity, feel free to do so, I just think it's a useless way to characterize people. Now do atheists?
posted by ginger.beef at 9:36 AM on April 22 [4 favorites]

Lately, a new, more thoughtful strain has entered my conversations with founders who express their off-the-record misgivings about the technology they themselves are building

First off thanks for posting this article had so many interesting quotes.

My takeaways being:

- Silicon Valley always wants to see itself as edgy, whatever the edge du jour is

- the actually relationship to Christs teachings being¡­? Oh right it¡¯s about power and it always has been, you¡¯re just proud of it now, which leads to¡­

- this is actually just reflecting the general cultural psychological pendulum swinging from Nietsche¡¯s slave morality to master morality;
¡ª but what¡¯s the pendulum period? 15 years? 25 years? 50?

- like the quote above, people coping with the shame of having built something that just enriches them at the enshittification of everything else; it doesn¡¯t actually make the world a better place like you pitched 10 years ago

- this is revenge of the nerds 3.0

- externalized shame is one hellova cultural moment to live through
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:47 AM on April 22 [3 favorites]

How can people talk about MEI (merit, excellence and intelligence) use that with a straight face when looking at the current administration? Seriously, these people.
posted by misterpatrick at 9:52 AM on April 22 [7 favorites]

On another note, this reminds me of a book about the European bohemian avant-garde of the 19th century turning to Catholicism toward the end of the century, as exemplified by figures like Joris-Karl Huysmans. Unfortunately I can't remember the title.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:44 AM on April 22 [3 favorites]

^ that¡¯s the picture I¡¯m getting¡­ I remember in high school reading about various times in history and how the church consolidated power and influence, or how in certain eras women ran businesses and were very independent, or even Poland having briefly a democracy way back when and thinking well that¡¯s how people thought back then, the masses weren¡¯t educated, they needed time to come to a more modern way of thinking.

LOL NOPE

We¡¯re the same, we¡¯ve always been the same, trends come and go, this really is a cyclic existence welcome to samsara here¡¯s your ticket good luck
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:07 AM on April 22 [3 favorites]

Not super interested in any article that includes a throwaway line about "antisemitism (being)...in vogue" (which is clearly referring to anti-genocide sentiment; this is a particularly noxious and honestly fascist framing, considering the ends to which that claim is being put by the Trump administration).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 11:23 AM on April 22 [7 favorites]

I usually try to read tfa and all the comments before responding, so apologies if this is badly out of sync with the room, but, "...and built a custom prayer stool to complement their priest fetish at the Folsom Street Fair..." Is such a weirdly specific detail that I'm having a hard time getting around it. I have no problem with this as a fetish, and I've never been to the Folsom Street Fair, but I can't imagine there are that many people who are into that kink and in Silicon Valley for it to be a type, much less a stereotype. Even if you expand that into a stand-in for kink in general, it seems like a really weirdly specific example. Is it a reference to something?
posted by Reverend John at 11:46 AM on April 22 [8 favorites]

I couldn't finish the article but I think the topic is interesting so...

I think prosperity gospel is very comforting for the rich and upper classes.

But I also think we're suffering some amnesia about why perhaps religion, or religious talk, is more common. We just went through a global pandemic that was an existential threat on many levels. It doesn't really surprise me, particularly in an American context, that people who have had their power shaken at a bit -- not much, and not for long, but remember when everyone realized if health care workers and food production workers refused to work we'd all be in big trouble? Remember cheering the grocery store clerks? Remember the ten minutes companies realized they need staff? -- are falling back on answers of previous generations or traditional comforts.

More and more I think a lot of what we're going through with power dynamics and control by some people (which American evangelism is about) is a type of trauma response. Unfortunately it makes for some scary stuff.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:48 AM on April 22 [9 favorites]

Regarding "real" Christianity, I 100% agree with you star gentle uterus that Christians have aligned themselves with power for, well, at least 1700 years (it took a little while to get the emperor's ear). I'd also agree that since at least Chrysostom, Christianity has had virulently antisemitic streak, though I'd argue that it took the calling of the Crusades to really kick it into the genocidal gear that it continually revisited for the next 850 years.

That said, I hope that since Nostra Aetate there have been Christian communities which are seeking to articulate (in conversation with Jews and people of other religions) a Christianity which isn't that. Whether that's "true" or "real" Christianity, IDK. It's certainly attempting to be a Christianity which confesses the evilness of past teachings and actions of Christians, while still finding purpose in the life and teachings of Jesus. In that sense, I've found Jewish NT scholars like AJ Levine helpful showing how Jesus is in continuity with the 2nd Temple Judaism of the time and in showing how to understand the NT as mainly made up of (admittedly out-of-the-mainstream for their time) historic Jewish texts which need to be read in light of other texts of that period to be understood properly.

Anyway, that's all to say that, sure, rad-trad Catholics like JD Vance are certainly expressing a kind of Christianity which has a very long and influential pedigree (That's why I'm always a bit skittish when Christian friends get excited about prominent people converting--what kind of Christianity are they converting to?). And even Fundamentalists and Health-and-Wealth Pentecostals are drawing on a historic form of Christianity (though one with much more recent, 19th century roots). But as far as I can tell this Silicon Valley form doesn't even seem to be one of those. It just seems to be slapping a Jesus sticker on the desires and worldview of very rich people and calling it Christianity. It's the equivalent of saying 'Namaste' at the beginning of meetings and using that to say that Hinduism is catching on.
posted by nangua at 12:24 PM on April 22 [4 favorites]

I think there is an important conversation about people claiming to be Christian but failing to practice their ostensible beliefs ¨C the distinction matters when they claim special status based on their creed ¨C but in this case it¡¯s really more about the way these rich and powerful people are trying to claim victim status on behalf of a much larger group. People don¡¯t criticize Peter Thiel for being a Christian but for his political beliefs.

Rejecting the assertion that Silicon Valley is hostile to Christians is important because it changes the question to what¡¯s different between this group of people and other Christians who do not share their vicious right-wing politics and thus have no problem coexisting peacefully with their neighbors.
posted by adamsc at 6:00 AM on April 23 [3 favorites]

"Help help I am being oppressed for my Christian beliefs!"

Oh no, are they preventing you from giving food to hungry?

"No."

Are they making you hoard massive amounts of wealth?

"No I like that part."

Hmm, okay so what beliefs are you being oppressed for?

"Oh, you know the ones."
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 7:42 AM on April 23 [9 favorites]

I worked for a division of Oracle in the '90s where the people who advanced were the people that went to specific weekly Bible study sessions. If you weren't part of that group, you weren't going to move forwards. (I was not part of that group and didn't realize the group was a thing until I was on my way out.) A lot of decisions made for that division were discussed at the Bible study sessions. This was apparently not a unique situation. More research could have been done for this article.
posted by rednikki at 5:26 PM on April 23 [5 favorites]

There must be good reasons the relapse into Christian bullshit coincides with the ascendancy of AI bullshit, ala The Rapture of the Nerds.

Yet, ctrl-F AI yields little here, and ctrl-F singularity yields nothing, so what's good in this article? Peter Thiel is not only a vampire and gay, but also evangelical? Alright..
posted by jeffburdges at 5:33 AM on April 24 [2 favorites]

- this is revenge of the nerds 3.0

- externalized shame is one hellova cultural moment to live through

"No one is more arrogant toward women, more aggressive or scornful, than the man who is anxious about his virility." -Simone de Beauvoir
posted by AlSweigart at 8:30 AM on April 24 [3 favorites]